I’m sorry; you’re just interviewing me wrong

Years ago I had an interesting interview experience. It was very early in my career and the guy who was going to hire me asked, "What's two plus two?"

I hesitated, but only for a millisecond trying in that brief moment to figure out why he had asked. Then, almost in a 'what kind of idiot do you think I am' tone I replied "Four". Since he did not respond or nod right away I added, "Unless this is the kind of place where if you say it's five, then it's five. Or if the customer says it's five then it's five – but I have to tell you, even if you say it's five – I'm the kind of guy who will work with five but I'll probably still let you know I think it's four."

I got the job, but that answer was not the reason why. In fact about 2 years later the same guy (my boss) asked me to interview new applicants for a position and he handed me his file of interview notes for the past few years. I found his notes on my interview and in particular found the notes on that question. His notes "Answered decisively – then went way too deep."

While I did get the job and one might argue that it was a really great question to ask with layers most people don't ever really think of. He was actually just asking the question to test my reflexes. To his credit, the position I was going for at the time was very junior and with a very shallow resume that was not relevant to the job at all, so it worked in this situation. But that won't fly in every interview with every candidate.

There have been some wonderful discussions lately in the blogosphere and the twitterverse about the candidate experience and how many companies have walked away from caring about that. This is a problem that runs through the online application process, the lack of feedback to inquiries about jobs or submitted resumes, and even through the interview process. It truly does not serve anyone well to have an interview completely tank. The interview, above all else, is where the company can make or break a new customer or an evangelist about what they do, who they are what they sell, etc.

Unfortunately there are many 'interviewers' out there who either take behavioral interview or active listening techniques so literally that they miss the entire point of the interview. Or they wind up evaluating on what is quite frankly illegitimate criteria.

I have been asked countless times in an interview, "Tell me how you got to where you are today?" They ask this as they are holding and reviewing my resume for presumably the first time. As much as my instincts scream for me to say, "I woke up, showered, got dressed, got in the car, got gas (uh – in the car), decided against the candy bar while I was waiting for the car to fill up, missed your turn off about 2 times and eventually was shown through that very door right there by you" I don't. Instead I go into a much less fascinating tale about my career history. However, about 5-10 seconds into my history I can see that the interviewer has lost interest, focus, or is just letting me babble while they now finally get the time to review the resume. This is not unlike when a Radio Station DJ puts on a 4 minute song so they can go to the bathroom but they take too long and you are left listening to dead air. It's just wrong.

In fact, while Behavioral, Stress, Technical, Active Listening, STAR, DMAIC, and all other theories and processes of interviewing candidates all have some level of merit in some way in some situations for some people – there is an inherent flaw in following any of those processes to the letter to get a good result out of an interview.

Even in an economy where the supply seems to well exceed the demand and where cynicism runs rampant among those who have the jobs and are interviewing those that do not, and where companies are looking harder at ways to disqualify people than to qualify them there is still a great truth that gets overlooked time and again. The interview is a two way street.

I have interviewed with people who behave like they are standing high atop a castle wall shouting questions down at me in a booming voice, "Who dares disturb the Keep of those that are lucky enough to work here?" and I am supposed shout back as loud as I can, "Tis I, the guy who worked at company A, then B, then C, then …you don't really care about all that do you?" And all of a sudden I am in a Monty Python sketch.

Here is my advice to the interviewer on how to properly conduct an interview.

Step 1. Take the first few minutes to get to know the candidate and find some way to connect. This will put them more at ease and get you more honest and thoughtful responses. Perhaps you know people who live near where they live or grew up; perhaps you have friends who went to school where they went to school, or anything that has less to do with work and more to do with life.

Step 2. Discuss the opportunity (don't run at the mouth or take too long to go over it since the candidate has presumably read the job description hence them finding their way to the chair across from you) and make sure the candidate has some understanding of what you are looking for. Then ask them to tell you how they might perform the job, what is their vision. It is very important here to avoid interrupting, but do take the time to validate that you understand what they are talking about. DO NOT tell them things like, "you won't be able to do that here" or "we're not set up for that". This messes with their energy and enthusiasm and does not help you in how you and your company is being interviewed by them. I mentioned in an earlier post that it is important that the candidate has vision even if it is not YET aligned with yours. This remains true.

Step 3. As they talk about what they would do they'll ask questions, be prepared to answer them, and don't be cagey. When you give up a little info it goes a long way to build trust and that trust will enhance the interview process immensely.

Step 4. Use the dialogue to take you to places you feel the interview needs to go. Between the time the interview was scheduled and the time it takes place the candidate gives a lot of thought to what they want to say, make sure you help them get to the right place to share those thoughts. Interviews often end with the standard, "What else can I tell you?" or "Do you have any questions for me?" or "here is my card, call me anytime with questions" While these are tried and true techniques to get to the end of the interview they often come across as insincere. So instead try, "Did we get to go over everything you had thought about before coming in?" or "Can I call you if I think of something else I wanted to ask you or talk about?" This simple twist may actually solicit some very important info that will help you make a decision about the next step. It will also make sure that, no matter how poorly the interview went, the candidate will likely have nice things to say about you and the company. Not that you need the validation, but it is better than having them badmouth the company based on their 45 minutes in a conference room.

Step 5. Follow up. Even as you jot down your notes on the interview (please jot down some notes!) take a moment to send a quick email while you have the resume in hand. A "thanks for coming in; it was a pleasure meeting you." Also goes a really long way in making the candidate experience complete. That experience is really key to the growth and morale of the company overall. Remember that for every job you interview candidates for one of them will get hired. So these steps not only will help you become a better and more effective interviewer, but will also be instrumental in building the morale of the people that enter the company.

Yes, I have more to say about this topic, but I will save it for another post.

If Not Higher

One of my favorite tales is a short story about 100 years old or more called "If Not Higher" by I.L. Peretz. It is a story often paraphrased to demonstrate that the good work that people do often goes unnoticed. I would love to include the story here but it is so much better when told live by an actual storyteller that I can only encourage you, at the very least, to find it on the web and read it before you continue reading here to get the true feel for the story and its power. http://joi.org/celebrate/rosh/higher.shtml

What I can do here though is discuss the meaning of the story. In short – a skeptic comes to find out that the high praise people have for a man doing good work is not high praise enough, thus causing his skepticism to melt away and offer his own praise of the man only now with far greater understanding.

Why I love this story is because we would all like to be the man deserving of praise, yet we all know that we spend so much of our lives being the skeptic. The longer we are skeptical of the world and people around us the harder and harder it is to get it to melt away. And having it melt away is an incredible feeling. Letting that happen means that in some way you are releasing your own inhibitions and allowing yourself to trust or have faith in something or someone else.

As someone who has been and continues to be a skeptic about a great many things and people on a regular basis, I am also someone who historically has let that skepticism melt away all too easily. But lately that has not been the case. And by lately I mean the past couple years. Don't get me wrong, I actually really want to believe in people. Though it has been tough because in the society we are continuously finding ourselves in it is all too easy to lose faith in people. Whether it is their lack of consideration, their selfishness, their smugness, their elitism or their fanaticism they are too busy or self-involved to "do the right thing".

Now who am I to lay down the gauntlet of what the "right thing" to do is? I'm not anybody other than an observer of the human condition like so many of the rest of us. So please feel free to vehemently disagree with me, I need that.

I'll say this – the right thing to do is to actually see and hear and listen to people. We've all heard that most people in a conversation are actually just waiting for their turn to speak rather than listening. We need to be listeners and we need to look for more people to listen to all the time.

It's kind of interesting that as I write this I am thinking about the way technology has integrated into our lives, how many people see it as complicated but all it is trying to replicate what we do as humans. Take the latest craze/wave/innovation of "Cloud Computing" in a nutshell (and let me know if I get this wrong) it is the combination of information one can gather on the internet through multiple sources to create a comprehensive idea or program or application or sales lead or whatever. It is understanding that all the data from all these different companies is on the web (in the cloud) and you can use other web-based applications to pull data from all of them as it corresponds or correlates to the idea or project that you are working on. Simpler. Cloud Computing is like having your own personal Jeopardy Champion in the room with you. The champ has info on everything so if the category is mid-century stamp collecting you are going to be able to pull info on collecting, postal service, stamps and stamp subject matter, the 1950's and 60's, etc. That's the cloud.

Another tech innovation a few years ago was the Network of Workstations or also called NOW. This was a predecessor to the cloud idea in that you would use many brains to create a super-brain. The techno equivalent of 2 or more heads are better than one (without the egos).

So that's what we need to do as people and I believe that using technology to do it is very helpful, but we just can't let it get us away from connecting with people as people. All too often we are now only connecting to people as profiles.

Another crazy example. I worked at a large company and had my office on the top floor of the building. When II chose to take the elevator there might be a few other people in the elevator with me that I didn't know (it was a big company) if I did not know them we would rarely speak for the entire elevator ride. Why? I am guessing that we assumed the other person was too busy to chat, or the ride would be too short to have a conversation, or we were too self-absorbed to want to chat, or assumes that of the other person. At work, in the elevator, we were merely profiles of ourselves, not people. Here is where it gets interesting and this actually did happen to me. My wife and I were invited to a dinner party through her work. I knew no one there but as it turned out another spouse who knew no one there either also worked for the company I did. As it turned out we had even shared a silent elevator ride multiple times. Yet we had never spoken. We were inseparable for the entire dinner party. We barely talked about work but we connected on about 10 other levels and both had a great time. We were now people and not profiles.

Of course by now, if you are still reading, you are expecting me to move into the "do the right thing, volunteer, treat people right, invest in your community, blah. Blah, blah" but once again let me try to make this less preachy and more practical.

By truly tuning in to people, by finding out who they are and not being afraid to reach out and get to know them or give them a glimpse of who you really are – you strengthen your own "cloud". Does that sound self-serving enough for today's environment?

Wait a minute - It pays to get to know people and let them get to know you?

Let's go back to the short story "If Not Higher" (have you read it yet?) Does either the man of praise or the skeptic think of the selfish ways their good work or high praise of another will serve them? The skeptic might as in the end of the story he becomes more pious and his believe and faith are strengthened by his observance of the other man's actions. Perhaps he is thinking now that his faith will serve him better and that he can use it to repent for his skepticism and be rewarded in whatever stage of his life comes next. No one would claim that the other man believes he is being served by this in any way. His service is to a higher power by way of the things he does in the story. And he does not serve that higher power for any greater reward than the satisfaction of knowing that he did a good thing, one might argue "the right thing".

So, if we as human beings who share the planet everyday of our lives with over 6 billion other people can find a way to get to know each other as people, can take the time to listen to each other's needs and see what we can do for each other to get those needs met – maybe, just maybe the society we live in can get a little more connected, a little more inspirational, a little less cynical and self-serving. Go ahead - try it. You may find it lifts your spirit to the clouds…if not higher.

I Love it When a Plan Comes Together

Every day that I pick up a newspaper and see those depressing job headlines I ask myself, "Who is this really for?" Is it really breaking news that more people are losing their jobs and that the ranks of the unemployed are increasing beyond previous expectations? We can bucket the readers of these headlines into a few separate groups.

The first group is those that have lost their jobs. With every headline they inch closer and closer to the edge of the bridge wondering, "Just when is there going to be news that does not push me deeper into despair?" This of course does not help decrease those horrible numbers if the level of despair gets to the point where they can not even bring themselves to be presentable enough to get a job if there were one available. So I am willing to believe that that there is a certain level of goodness in the people who publish the paper and that their intention is not to exacerbate the problem. That means that those headlines are not for the people in this bucket.

The next bucket is the people who are still employed and who read that article and thank their lucky stars that it is not they who have increased the statistic. These are the "at least it's not me" folks. But of course they always need to be aware that it would not take all that much for them to wind up as part of those statistics. So the headlines might be for these people if the media is in fact in cahoots with their employers to try to motivate their workers to work harder, do more, be a team player, and shut up about any adverse conditions because the worker should feel lucky that they have a job. But in fact I do not believe that the people who publish the paper have that level of altruism for the employers (though they do try to get ad revenue out of them) so this one is plausible, but not so likely.

Finally, my last bucket is the high corporate muckimucks who have the power to set budgets, determine the vision and strategy, and ultimately decide to hire more personnel. Do they read these headlines and think, "Oh my goodness, we better hire some people fast because the economy is in trouble." While I would love it if that was the case, I know that it is not true. In fact quite the opposite happens. They think, "Hmm, no one else is hiring and other companies are laying people off, this seems like a good time to do that. We'll save money and won't look too evil in the process since everyone is doing it." So here I submit that these headlines, not intending to do that (I hope), are really not for these people either.

So I guess it's just what we've come to accept as news for the sake of news. But if you really think about it, on some level, this makes me think of a scenario where a man jumps off a 150 story building and as he passed every 25 floors someone shouts out the window to him, "you've jumped off the building" or "you're falling" or "you're heading downward" or "you're gonna hit the ground". Do any of those shouting people really think that the man who jumped did not already know all these things? They are in fact really only shouting for the sake of shouting. And while it may make them feel better for doing it, it really doesn't make him feel any better nor is it helpful in any way.

This is the part where I usually go into my rant about what you can do to be helpful. I'm going to skip that for now. You can read an earlier blog entry if you need that vibe right now. Instead I'm going to focus on what might be good to do now so that you can be more helpful later.

In terms of the unemployment situation. Now is the time for companies to not just look for the cost cutting opportunity, but also look for the better plan going forward. How can a company prepare itself for the upturn (please let there be an upturn) if they only focus on how to respond to a downturn. Companies go from cutting costs to spending out of control on a regular basis. Why does this happen? Lack of effective planning. They've cut costs, scaled back programs, removed vendors, slashed requisitions, cut travel budgets, and laid off numerous workers which has all actually created a high degree of darkness in the workplace and the marketplace. So now what? Now they need to start creeping back towards the light a little bit. Little by little they can create the appropriate and scalable infrastructure. They can establish parameters and processes without business partners that will enable us to scale up slowly and reach plateaus along the way that will allow for them to survey the landscape and decide what to do as they move forward.

So here is what I am saying. Take the time now to get the right people in place to plan for the future. Look through the amazingly large pool of candidates carefully and deliberately to find the people who will hit the ground running but will keep your best interests in mind. Find the people who have been out there under their own frugality plan, who understand how to find scalable cost effective and creative solutions on a daily basis. These are the people who are hungriest not to mess up any opportunity they are given. Do your research, your due diligence. Make sure that you are not just engaging someone with a well written resume, or who interviews like a pro (cause they've had a lot of practice and by the way - why is that?), but someone who has really done the work you need done or someone who can bring a new level of creativity to the table. A Real Person is preferable to a stuffed shirt any day and there are a lot of real folks out there. They may not be pretty, or imposing, or have a commanding presence when they first walk into the room, but take a few minutes to get to know the Real Person inside. Having a real person who is willing to get their hands dirty if need be and work hard to prepare tor whatever comes next is a key component of carefully and deliberately planning for success.

How does all of this help our friend from the 150th floor? We Plan carefully. First we create a situation where he has no reason to jump. Then, just in case let's make sure the windows and doors are locked up there so he can't get out. Then just in case he decides to hurl a chair through the window or door to get to the balcony let's give it a high un-climbable fence or something. Then, if he is still so determined to jump let's put out some nets a few floors down to catch him and set off an alarm so someone will go get him before he climbs out and falls down to the next set of nets or something. Now, if he has done all his due diligence and pre-planning and he's read this article and he feels really prepared for his jump, well...Don't waste his time telling him what he already knows on the way down and …congrats to him on his success.

Bottom line? If you can plan effectively during this time and engage the right people to come up with and implement the plan, then you will not be making the same dark and depressing headline garnering decisions everyone else is down the road. You'll be better prepared for disaster and you'll be growing your business when everyone is cutting back.

ACTUAL LEADERSHIP, PART II

Let's suppose that all the planets align correctly and you wake up on the correct side of the bed (most days) and you are becoming an Actual Leader. This is confirmed for you on a regular basis by people who genuinely smile when they see you coming and also smile and thank you when they depart your presence. Some of these people come to you out of the blue to bounce ideas off of you or report progress because they know that you appreciate it and that they are appreciated. You are even taking the time, as tedious as it is, to at least acknowledge emails and even respond to some of them in a timely manner. Your team is improving their performance because you have inspired them to do so. Feel good about yourself, you deserve it – just don't let it go to your head.

Now that you've got this inspiration thing down, now that you are cultivating followers, what is the extent of this new superpower? Given that your team is working smarter, is happier and is producing more - be it programs or widgets, or services. Your new skills are making a difference…..at work. For many of us, that is just enough. We decide to do what we need to and drive ourselves toward increasing our own paycheck and maybe, if we are truly sincere about being Actual Leaders, we try to do all that for the people who work for us and the people that we work for. It's all good, you've got talent, but it's all still….just at work. What about not "just at work"?

In his book, "Outliers", the 21^st Century prolific author on where humanity meets business, Malcolm Gladwell (and that's my take on who he is) talks about what talent truly is. He concludes that talent, no matter how gifted, is all about hard work. What we are motivated (or inspired) to do because we love it, makes us do it a lot, and when we do something a lot (practice music, cook, read, write, play sports) we become really really good at it. In fact, he made popular the assessment in "The Cambridge handbook of expertise and expert performance" that it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something. Our Normal amount of hours at work in a given year (with an average of 8 holidays and another 2-4 weeks of vacation or sick time off, comes out to less than 2000 hours a year. So even if you were being an Actual Leader that entire time it will still, according to some, take you over 5 years to become an Actual Leadership Expert. But as I said in Part I, we are truly passively Actual Leaders in many other areas of our lives. Where can we get as much practice in as possible so that we can accelerate our rate of expert level acquisition of Actual Leadership?

This is where my discussions on Leadership meet up with my earlier discussion about Karma. When you have embedded Actual Leadership into your character it is time (many would argue that anytime is time) to put those skills to work to make the world a better place.

Yes, I am setting the high and lofty goal of making the world a better place. Many of you have heard numerous tales and anecdotes about how people do something small but it makes a big difference. In one of my earlier entries I relayed the story about the Sea Stars (go back to my earlier post " Raise me up-Don't bring me down!") a case where someone was doing very little, but it was making a big difference to those he was doing it for. We can each take these newfound Actual Leadership skills and do amazing things with them. We can pick a cause that is important to us, and we can inspire people to do the same. We can make followers among the people whose lives we touch every day and we can help them understand and want to work with us to change the world.

I am not talking about starting a movement, nor am I getting on some high horse and trying to preach to you that you need to join me in some crusade. What I am saying here is that you WILL make a difference because it will serve you well. It will make you feel good; it will improve your view of the world and your place in it. It will be wonderful for you because you are practicing your skills; you are using those skills in excess of the minimal amount of hours it takes to gain the expertise. You are embedding it into your DNA so that you may becoome an expert.

There are some folks who, in their respective professions, roles, or offices, finally "got it" as far as Actual Leadership goes and made some game-changing or life-changing choices. One of my favorites in modern times is Warren Buffet (look him up if you want to know more about him). Mr. Buffet, the pre-eminent investor of our time, accumulated a significant amount of wealth. He had a foundation created in his name with every intention of leaving the bulk of his wealth, $44 Billion, to that foundation upon his death and he said as much in a New York Times interview in 1988 when he was a mere 58 years old. Then in 2006, he changed his mind. At the age of 76 and in relatively good health, it seems he decided, "Why wait until I die to be charitable?" Ok, he's been charitable all along, more than any of us could ever dream to be, but noiw he was talking about 85% of his fortune, over $37 Billion. He did not choose to transfer it to his own foundation; instead he decided that most of it would go to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Why? Because he was inspired by the mission and the vision that the Gates Foundation has. He was led there by an Actual Leader, his friend Bill Gates. This donation is one major step for Mr. Buffet in his efforts to become an Actual Leader outside his traditional comfort zone. This guy does not have the kind of experience parting with money that we do. His comfort zone is accumulating. So this is a major effort for him to move from his Actual Leadership role as an investor for profit, towards his new Actual Leadership role as a philanthropist .

We can go closer to the other end of the spectrum and look at the often claimed to be "inspiring" accomplishments of some one like Michael Phelps, the Olympic swimmer who seems to set another world record every time he touches water. Mr. Phelps is nothing short of amazing if not unbelievable. But is he doing the most with his Actual Leadership capabilities? Athletes who inspire other athletes or children to become athletes are definitely embarking down the Path of Actual Leadership. They have drive, interests, and are well able to inspire others. But do they take that to the next level and fold that Actual Leadership into the fabric of who they are as citiizens of the world like the rest of us? Often times they just come so close. For example, before the 2008 Olympic games Phelps' idol, Australian swimmer Ian Thorpe was quoted as saying that it was highly unlikely that Phelps could take home 8 gold medals. While Phelps used that info to inspire him to work harder, Thorpe misses the Actual Leadership opportunity. After Phelps won his eighth medal Thorpe was very congratulatory and proud of the accomplishment. But his public encouragement would have been even more inspiring before the games.

As far as athletes go my endorsement in this regard goes out Athletes for Hope (www.athletesforhope.org) as they are going outside their comfort zone, using the skills they developed as Actual Leaders in their chosen profession and working to make the world a better place.

Now, while you are may not be a high profile investor, nor is it likely that you are a world-class athlete, it is still possible for you to make a difference as an Actual Leader out in the world beyond your comfort zone. That's the karma connection – you get out of something what you put into it, so if you are getting a lot out of something you are obligated to put a lot back in. By doing this you will be able to bring others with you in your endeavors and show them what it means to turn their Actual Leadership into a renewable resource that can help create a sustainable future for everyone.

Summing up this topic here is what I want you to take away. First: Be an Actual Leader, not just a manager. Second, inspire others to do the same and recognize that we can all become Actual Leaders in ways we have not even dreamed of. Third, get out there and practice, practice, practice, so that you can become an expert at Actual Leadership.